insomnomaniac: The purpose-driven debate

August 17, 2008

The purpose-driven debate

Anyone watch the Saddleback forum last night? It was great, really great. Certainly turned the klieg light of reality on both candidates, as well as the fact that the crap the networks pass off as "debates" are nothing more than tv tabloid shows with lower-paid celebrities.

I learned more about each of these guys and who they really are, and why they really want to be President in two hours than I've learned in all the months of this stupid campaign season! Kudos to Pastor Warren, that's for sure. Talk about a study in contrasts!!

I posted live about it in my discussion forum, so rather than extrapolate from those remarks, I'll just give 'em to you here in all their stream-of-consciousness glory! Please forgive me if they are hard to follow, but here goes!
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Q: Who are the wisest people in your life, who would you look to for advice in your administration (I took it to be one question not two, Obama felt differently I guess)
Person number one: Michelle
Person number two: his Grandmother (the typical old white one tee hee)

Let's see...So far, the first two people on his list for advice on his administration are FAMILY....Mmmmkay, scary, but ok....

Oh, he finally realizes he better mention some names that are not related to him
Dick Luger, Sam Nunn...Oh, now he's spinning, wants a round table of a bunch of people....Can't limit it to three, or refuses to....Going on and on, blah blah...The non-answer, he never gave a third person.

Next question: What would be the greatest moral failure in your life, and the greatest moral failure in America?

His life: He's talking about experimenting with drugs, drinking, being obsessed with himself (unlike now of course ), couldn't focus on other people (me me me) oh, but it's not about me ()....Still not answering the question....Unless rank narcissism IS his answer

America's: We still don't abide by that basic precept in Matthew: Whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me. OK, true, but I don't recall Matthew saying that we need to provide ways for people to get into the middle class (via gov't). Can't recall that

Next question: Lots of good legislation gets killed b/c of party loyalty...When did you go against your own party for the good of the country?

Answer: Campaign finance reform (um, and then he refused public financing! HUHWHA??), eliminating meals and gifts from corporate lobbyists, but big-time $2,000 a plate fundraisers are ok? Opposing the decision to go to Iraq (but that wasn't opposing the party, there were plenty of Dems who were opposed to that).

Next question: Re: Flip-flopping, sometimes it's smart if the position is better...What's the most sig. position you changed b/c you actually changed your mind? (GREAT QUESTION!!)

Answer: Welfare reform. He always believed welfare had to be changed....10 years ago he was concerned when Clinton signed the bill....Wanted to make sure the IL legislature was supporting people still....It worked better than anticipated, and one of the things he's absolutely convinced of is that we have to have work as the centerpiece of any social policy (A-FRIGGIN-MEN!! But working for whom? Tax biz more, they hire less, ask Duval your buddy, he'll tell you )

Next question: Toughest decision you had to make

Opposition to the war in Iraq b/c Saddam was a really bad person, but we didn't have evidence of WMD, and he had a lot of questions about how it was going to go, did we KNOW how everyone was going to get along in a post-Saddam Iraq, will this affect terrorism (note: I HIGHLY DOUBT he asked that question, very few people thought this would strenghten Al Qaeda, I doubt he did, hindsight is 20/20--now he's spinning based on present day knowledge. I think it's crap that he thought of all this when making the initial decision).

Next segment...World view.
Dang, he's getting to the meaty stuff now Christianity, abortion, marriage, stem cell research!

So far, his answer on how Christianity impacts his daily life is pretty meh, stuff you could get from a Hallmark card ("I know I don't walk alone...If I can get out of the way, maybe I can do some good in the world...")

Abortion: He's pro-choice, but refused to answer the question which was "When does it become a human rights issue?" (Which I took to mean at what point in gestation and number of abortions--he never answered). He's for helping mothers keep their kids and birth control.

Marriage = One man one woman, but he's pro-civil union, does NOT support amendment to the Constitution to define marriage that way

Stem cells = he supports it, can't give you whole answer...

OH SNAP, question: Which supreme court justice would you not have nominated?

Answer: Clarence Thomas, Scalia because he disagrees with Scalia's positions (uh-oh), Roberts....tough question, he's smart, thoughtful (please note, he voted against confirmation of him, and he stands by that still), but he's glad he voted against confirmation b/c one of the most important jobs of the SCOTUS is to guard against encroachment of the executive branch, he's been too willing to give the administration more power (note, the SCOTUS doesn't GIVE power).

Question: Faith based programs have the right to hire people who believe as they do (guaranteed right by the civil rights act btw). Would you require them to hire anyone to get fed. funding to help in the community?

Answer: Blah blah blah, they are always free to hire when it comes to who their own mission is, but it comes to programs that are federally funded, we have to be careful that people are being discriminated against (I.e., YES ).

Oh SNAP!!

Question: "Define 'rich'?"

(LOVE IT!!!)

Answer: Here's how I think about it, and this is reflected in my tax plan...If you are making $150K/year as a family, you are middle class..."

Ok, I can get behind that

Pastor: OK, but in this region you're poor (CA)

Obama: If you're making above $250K, you're doing pretty well....I'm not suggesting everyone who's making that are living on easy street, but [sic] we've got to pay for these things...And I believe it's irresponsible, intergenerationally, for us to spend $10Bil/month on a war and not have a way to pay for it."

Says people below $150 will get a cut, people above $250 get a tax increase....Um, what about that HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE???

Question: What's worth dying for, as an American?

GREAT QUESTION!!

Answer: Our freedom, yada yada....

Question: Would you commit troops to stop genocide?

GREAT QUESTION!!

Answer: Sorta yes, but weird answer...Says if the "international community committed to act, we should act."

HUH?

Question: Something about orphans (sorry, missed the question)

Answer: We should try to prevent people from becoming orphans (????)

Question: What should the US do to prevent religious persecution around the world?

Answer: Speak out, bear witness, not pretend it's not taking place (OK, can we start with THE MIDDLE EAST AND ISLAMIC NATIONS AND THE CONTINUED EXISTENCE OF DHIMMITUDE?????? Sorry, back to him! )

He wants to fixate on China...Trust me, theirs is NOT the worst religious persecution, but what-evah....

Also he says we have to lead by example, have religious tolerance here in the USA, mentions torture and habeas corpus! WHAT THE f**k??? We do NOT torture people for their religion! DID HE JUST JUXTAPOSE DETENTION WITH RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION?

WHAT THE f**k?

Dear Al Jazeera, here's your headline, Love Barack

Is he insane???

Question: What should we do about human trafficking
Answer: Long-winded answer about how much human trafficking sucks (duh)

Question: Why (in a minute) do you want to be President?

Answer: He remembers what his mom used to tell him....She would get really angry if she thought if he'd been mean to anyone, the basic idea of empathy....What makes America special it's that we care for others. He wants to be President b/c that's the American he wants to see, and he wants to build bridges across partisan lines, etc....

('course, I can't recall any bridges he's built so far of any significance....are they across rivers, brooks, streams?)

He wants people to know him well.

Question: What would you tell the American people if you knew there would be no repurcussions?

Answer: Solving the energy problem won't be easy (NO s**t). Invokes the depression to say that we need to be willing to make sacrifices to get to the next level in energy.

That's confidence inspiring! (not) Probably TRUE, but scary nonetheless, so I guess he answered that honestly

Here comes John McCain for the handshake--we're halfway through.

Now I get analysis...Oh, they are reminding me that Obama was asked if evil exists and he pointed at US, never mentioned Al Qaeda (yeah, bad move).

Also the point has been made that saying Thomas didn't deserve to be SCOTUS justice b/c of lack of experience is a bit IRONIC, no?

Same questions for McCain...

Three wisest people:
1) General Petreaus - one of the great military leaders of today
2) John Lewis (war vet)
3) Meg Whitman, CEO of E-Bay, because there are so many people who make a living off e-bay, and in these challenging economic times we need to call on people like her who have been able to make so many Americans successful

What's been your greatest moral failure and that of America?

Answer (punctuated by a joke, very funny).
His: Failure of my first marriage--greatest moral failure
Americas: We have not devoted ourselves to causes greater than our self interst enough, we are the best at it, but we still don't do enough. INstead of telling people after 9/11 to go shopping, we should have told people to join the Peace Corps and the military and so on....Serve a cause greater than your self-interest.

Love that answer.

Question about party loyalty and partisan politics, where did he lead against his party's interest?

Answer (OH HOW WILL HE CHOOSE??? ) More joking!!!! "By a strange coincidence, I was not elected Miss Congeniality in the US SEnate again this year, I don't know why..."

HAHAHAHA!!!

When he was a new member of Congress, Reagan wanted to send troops to Beirut, McCain was against it (BRAVO, GREAT ANSWER!! It was a huge mistake). He went against his party and his President--one he really admired.

Question: What's the most sig. issue you changed your mind about (flip-flopping question)?

Answer: Offshore drilling. We gotta drill now, and we gotta drill HERE, and we gotta become independent of foreign oil. He knows there are some here in "Cullyfornia" who disagree with him, but this is a national security issue...WE send over $700Bil each year to countries that don't like us...We can't allow this transfer of wealth to continue to be a threat.

We gotta do everything, solar, wind, electric cars, etc... AND NUCLEAR POWER (he was emphatic not me )

And (joke) if you hadn't noticed, we have a pro-American president of France which shows if you live long enough, anything can happen! HAHAHA!

Question: What was your most gut-wrenching decision you had to make, and what was your process.

Answer (here it comes): When the Vietnamese said he could leave the prison early. He said no, and the officer said it was going to be very tough on him. But he was happy with that decision and it was the best of his life. It took a LOT of prayer.

NOTE: I gotta say, he is KICKING ASS AND TAKING NAMES! McCain can't read off a prompter worth s**t, but he can talk off the cuff sooooo well! HE's funnier than s**t, I didn't realize!

More after commercial break...

Oh, I assume he means this guy when he says John Lewis:
http://johnlewis.house.gov/

Question: What does your faith mean to you?

Answer: Means I am saved and forgiven...Now a story from Vietnam. HOLY CRAP, description of torture he endured (awful). One night door opened and guard came in and loosened the rope, and four hours later came back and tightened it. A few days later it was Christmas and the same guy walked up to him and drew a cross in the sand in front of McCain, stood there for a minute and then wiped it out and walked away.

WOW.

Question: Abortion, 40Mil abortions since RvW, when does it become a human rights issue?

Answer: At the moment of conception.

Thunderous applause, naturally.

He has a 25 year pro-life record, he has a pro-life commitment and he will be a pro-life President.

Q: Define Marriage
A: One man, one woman

Q: Prop 8 in CA, were they wrong to overturn the def. of marriage that way
A: Yes, they were wrong, but he's a federalist, he wants states to make the decision. Doesn't mean people should be deprived rights to enter into legal unions, but we should preserve the unique status of "MARRIAGE" as one man one woman.

IF a federal court ruled that my state had to observe what MA or CA decided, THEN I would want an amendment.

Q: Stem cells, do you support it or not?
A: For those of us in the pro-life community, this is a tough issue, he's for it, but he's very hopeful that other research (skin cell research?? Never heard of it) will make the discussion academic.

Q. Does evil exist? Should we negotiate with it, contain it, or defeat it?
A. Defeat it.

If I have to follow him to the gates of hell, I will find Osama Bin Laden. Of course evil must be defeated. We are facing the transcendant challenge of the 21st C. in Islamic fundamentalist extremism.

Then he describes how Al Qaeda took 2 mentally challenged young women and strapped bomb vests on them and sent them in by remote control to kill others and if that's not evil, he doesn't know what is.

Bunch of stuff on Islamic fundamental extremism, thunderous applause.

Q: On the courts, which existing SCOTUS justices would you NOT have nominated.

A: Seuter, STephens, Bryer, Ginsberg, because the Pres. has responsibility nominating justices who have proven records of strictly adhering to the Constitution and not legislating from the bench. Alito and Roberts are two of his FAVORITES

Q: Can faith based organizations hire whoever what they want if they get federal funds, would you require them to hire those who don't agree with them?

A: Absolutely NOT

(DH chimes in "Would a mosque have to hire a married couple of gay female jews, for example?" Wiseass! )

More elaboration on that....

Q: Education, (some stats that basically say that we are s**t compared to other nations in terms of graduation and such ), forgot to post Obama's answer to this sorry, will do now), do you support merit pay (essential thrust of question)?

A (Obama's that I forgot to give you): Sorta kinda yes, if the teachers get to help define what merit is (no mention of which teachers would get to do that--would it be the meritorious ones, or the shitty ones? )

A (McCain): Yes, he supports merit pay, would fire bad teachers and bad teachers should find another line of work Choice and competition, homeschooling, vouchers, choice and competition! He wants every family to have the choices he and Cindy made and Obama and his wife made...Homeschooling works! Charter schools work! Vouchers work! These things work! NOLA has charter schools and guess what, they are working! It's going to take dedicated men and women work, but it is a civil rights issue, but what kind of opportunity is it to send a kid to a failing school? That's why we gotta give every kid an opportunity to have a choice in schooling.

Q: On taxes....Define 'rich'? Gimme a number?
A: Rich shouldn't be a number. I don't want to take any money from the rich, I want everyone to get rich! But I can tell you that there are small biz men and women who are working 24/7 who are classified as "rich"! Let's keep taxes low! It was not taxes that mattered in America that mattered in the last several years, it was SPENDING. We spent $3M to study the DNA of bears in Montana, I don't know whether it was a paternity issue or a criminal one, but it was YOUR MONEY!

(Oh he's good!)

And what did the congress do when you were struggling? They went on vacation! We should not raise taxes in hard economic times.

Note: can he stop saying "My friends?????"

PUHLEEZE!! Otherwise, good answers, but dang, it's like a tic!

Q: When does our right to privacy collide with our right to security? (note, Obama didn't get this one b/c he talked so much around every answer there wasn't time my comment, not the pastor's)

A: It does collide, all the time, but our enemies are keeping up with technology so we have to step up our capabilities to monitor those methods. But this is an example of our failure to sit down as a gov't to work these things out. There is a constant tension, it's changing with technological changes, and we have to keep up with it.

Q: What is our stewardship to everyone else, what is worth dying for as an American
A: Freedom (same as Obama so far). There's tyranny and tragedy throughout the world, and we can't right every wrong, but we can be a beacon of liberty, there are conflicts we can't settle, the most precious asset we have is American blood. We have gone to every corner of the Earth to defend others' freedoms...

Question: What would be the criteria for committing troops? What about genocide
A: We have a responsibility to stop genocide wherever we can, the question is how can we effectively stop it. We've got to try to marshall the forces of the world to help us.